tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35889031.post6757231397902430527..comments2023-11-05T00:58:55.352-07:00Comments on A Peculiar Prophet: Guest-Blogging: Julie HollyWilliam H. Willimonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00002821401928222858noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35889031.post-6257840940111249842008-02-18T15:00:00.000-08:002008-02-18T15:00:00.000-08:00As a Lutheran, I loved your comments on how infant...As a Lutheran, I loved your comments on how infant baptism made sense. Often I think of it as a sign of the largeness of God - great in love, grace, and so on. Thanks for the good words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35889031.post-81751893119813091332008-02-18T10:30:00.000-08:002008-02-18T10:30:00.000-08:00Robert,Although not UMC, I agree whoeheartedly in ...Robert,<BR/><BR/>Although not UMC, I agree whoeheartedly in your assessment. In my church, we still use the altar rail ( and I often draw a comparison between the rail being inside the Holy of Holies, and the Altar being the in the same place as the hilasterion, where the blood of the covenant is poured to cover sins)<BR/><BR/>my parisoners come up as a group, kneel as a group (those that can) commune and dismiss as a group (or a "table" (another nice point - the table is not just individual)<BR/><BR/>Does it take a few more minutes? Maybe, I am not convinced. it does leave more time to consider the grace to be received. <BR/><BR/>Another benefit- because my elders ( lay spiritual leaders) are the "ushers/hosts" as they invite people up - they have a moemnt to talk to the stranger in our midst, finding out if they believe, and yes, are baptised, and have examined themselves.<BR/><BR/>One of my elders recently visited another church in our synod, and remarked how much more he apprecaited our care at the table, after seeing the spiritual equivelant of the drive through. (he wans't being sarcastic, just a little shocked)<BR/><BR/>our confessions have a neat line...<BR/><BR/>The purpose of all ceremonies is to teach(or give) the people what they need to know about Jesus.<BR/><BR/>His presence, grace and comfort among them. <BR/><BR/><BR/>It would seem you have a similar attitude, and I pray your people realize the blessings they receive!d†phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15806483577047857781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35889031.post-9918716797397584062008-02-18T08:29:00.000-08:002008-02-18T08:29:00.000-08:00Julie, I think you got JW right in your assessment...Julie, I think you got JW right in your assessment of God's grace being "invitational." That's a great word that beautifully captures God's stance to those outside the covenant. I wonder, though, how your pre-Methodist experience of insider/outsider might help us recover some integrity in our celelbration of the sacraments in the UMC, which, I'm sure you'll admit, have a tendency to be watered down (pun most definately intended) in our churches. <BR/><BR/>After all, is there not a reality that there are outsiders to the covenant (i.e., those who have not accepted that grace)? My experience has been that we tend to play down that insider/outsider reality, for fear of "offending" or some other such nonsense, to the point that we communicate to people that it requires no sacrifice or personal transformation whatsoever to become an insider. This is wholly foreign to the ritual of the sacraments themselves. In our historic baptismal rituals, we call strongly for a rejection of evil and adherence to Christ and his Church. In our traditional invitation to the Lord's Supper, we call for "earnest" repentance and peaceful living. Our quickie baptisms and fast-food-style Eucharists, bereft of ritual, bereft of prayers, bereft of any lanugage (acted-out or spoken) that might suggest that following Christ is any more difficult than joining the country club, and executed only with the intention of not making people have to sit or stand too long, I think, have robbed these sacraments of their converting power. Through our watered-down versions we have not said anything significant about God's inviting grace and what it takes to receive that grace.<BR/><BR/>Along with the recovery of UM beliefs, in the spirit of Willimon's book on UM beliefs, I'd like to see a recovery of UM practices that reaffirm and sustain those beliefs in the hearts and minds of the faithful and would-be faithful, even if people do have to sit just a little longer in worship. If we do it with the creativity that I think our worhship of God demands, then people shouldn't mind the extra five minutes because they will be so moved by the Spirit that lunch will be the last thing on their minds. I think prerequisite to that, however, we pastors must be comfortable with the Scripture's assertion that there are outsiders. And, we must be ready to communicate that reality with the same humility of Paul (Remember that at one time you, too, were strangers to the covenant of promise [Eph 2:12]) and the grace-filled, challenging, and life-altering invitation of Jesus (Luke 14:25-35). <BR/><BR/>Thanks for this article.<BR/><BR/>BrandonAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14505839060757139372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35889031.post-76006386875612504012008-02-17T13:27:00.000-08:002008-02-17T13:27:00.000-08:00Thank you, JulieThank you, JulieWilliam H. Willimonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00002821401928222858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35889031.post-59317790428802609522008-02-12T11:25:00.000-08:002008-02-12T11:25:00.000-08:00Julie,Very good job on the article!In my brotherho...Julie,<BR/><BR/>Very good job on the article!<BR/><BR/>In my brotherhood (LCMS) we talk often about word and sacrament (akin to your word and table - but including baptism)and it is a focus. <BR/><BR/>I too moved into a sacramental chruch after years (as a pastor) in a non-sacramental movement. The difference is extraordinary. Primarily because the sacraments (and we include absolution as well) are God's work, not ours. In the non-sacramental world, they talk of these things as our obediene, as opposed to God pouring out His blessing of grace, and the promise of eternity (starting now) in His presence to us!<BR/><BR/>May you always rejoice when Hisd†phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15806483577047857781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35889031.post-59468931118258054202008-02-11T20:09:00.000-08:002008-02-11T20:09:00.000-08:00You go Julie. I'm still angry after hearing our pa...You go Julie. I'm still angry after hearing our pastor last sunday tell a 1000 or so people that they are probably not saved if they are not tithing 10%. Don't get me wrong I believe in tithing and I believe 10% is probably fair for some. But as you have pointed out a dose of, turn or burn, followed by a dose of grace is like water on parched ground.B'ham Billyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10269505709699543073noreply@blogger.com